Is there a cure, or just a band aid?

I am curious if anyone has had full remission or a complete breakthrough. Ketamine is the best thing that has helped me with my depression. It helps some with my anxiety too. I kind of feel like if I could only let go of the past, or see it in a different way, that it’s hold over me wiIl be released. I think I have looked at it in a different way, but it doesn’t take away the experiences. Those things are what form us as adults. I haven’t been able to shake it yet. I am worried I never will. I’m wondering if childhood issues just stick with you and never go away. You just learn to deal with them. I’m worried I will never truly be happy, just coping. I wish I could rewire my brain. I know people have had way worse things happen to them, and are likely better off mentally than me. My anxiety is worse than my depression now. I wish I could occasionally feel like I do on Ketamine without having to take Ketamine. It’s like the weight is lifted off of me temporarily, and I feel like I can breathe for the first time. Don’t get me wrong, I’m way better than I’ve been in a long time, but I still feel like I’ve got a constant rain cloud over me. I normally get a booster every month, but I’ve been trying to go longer. It’s almost been 2 months now. Probably time to schedule an appointment.

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I’ve thought about your question for a couple of days now. At the time of my initial series, I had thought about little but taking myself out of the gene pool for nearly two weeks, and that changed with the first six infusions. Having said that, it’s been about 16 months now, and the depression isn’t gone.

I’ve come to the conclusion that depression and/or anxiety are caused by a particular way of viewing the world around us, and that the reason psychedelics are effective at addressing those issues is that they cause us to view the world in a new and different way, even if only for a little while. Coupled with the neuroplasticity effects of ketamine, some pretty powerful shifts in perception are possible, but I think it’s probably the shift in perception rather than the ketamine itself that is responsible for the improvement. Then again, it’s entirely possible that I have no idea what I’m talking about. :wink:

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Yeah my doctor talks about the neuro connections, but I told him I feel like the psychedelic mental experience is what helps more. He actually agrees that it has some positive effect. I know other doctors think it’s about the connectivity, but I told my doctor what if it’s both. Like a cause and effect. Neuro connections change and we get that different perspective. I actually think that’s what it is. I think our brains are either “different” from hereditary, life experience, or both. I think the Ketamine helps reconnect those damaged connections while giving us the perception of a “normal” brain. Whatever that might be. Less fight or flight brain.

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What baffles me is the wide range of experiences people describe here. The kind of emotional experience and/or realistic perceptions of “real” things or people are notably absent in my experiences. There’s little or nothing to relate to more-or-less ordinary reality. Sometimes there is movement, sometimes not, but there’s no connection at all to my everyday world. Curiouser, and curiouser yet…

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It’s an usual experience because every infusion is different. My last infusion I had so much on my mind because I’ve been having relationship problems and I did not seem to be able to go very deep. It’s still made me feel better. I think sometimes we have to realize ketamine cannot fix some of the problems that we have to experience here on planet earth. It is a tool that helps us to be more normal in the way that we can relate to our world. I Think it is the best medicine for us. We have to use our brains to support the medication. This is hard work getting better sometimes. I have had PTSD from a gunshot injury to my face since I was a little kid. Just to have it under control is a miracle in my life. Focus on the positives and work on the negatives! Much love to everybody in the Osmind family.

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I get Spravato as my health insurance pays, fortunately. The first treatment was very psychedelic and I cried. The next day the whole world changed - colors were brighter, scents more delicious, music more soul touching. I felt joy. I wasn’t fearful. I have been fighting severe grief, PTSD, anxiety and childhood trauma. I have been fighting depression since birth probably. I did the treatments twice a week for five weeks. The fifth week with a upped dosage. I developed high liver enzymes but I don’t believe from the Spravato and had to take a month break. I’m right back where I was before starting treatments. I’m so saddened that the “joy” door slammed shut.

Like you, I have tried to dissect this concept of “cured”. Maybe it’s the idea of being cured and whole versus our view of ourselves. In my own case I know that I put so many issues and events in their own boxes, away from basic daily function. For me, there’s always been a defining line between people who are “well wrapped” and those who aren’t. Perhaps the folks who seem well just function without the boxes, seeing the messy bits as part of their whole life experience. Their identity is not their issues, but themselves, just one being.
To be cured seems like a miracle compared to being average, when being average is all we’ve ever wanted. Granted, some folks have not had many or any of the experiences that create difficulties with brain health. Stronger genes, better options, etc. Maybe Ketamine is providing the shift towards average, and we are not noticing because we’re striving for cured.
Like you, I may have no idea what I’m talking about. There’s a good chance of that. :grin:

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I had depression for over 18 years. But never a day before that. I tried every medication and combo of meds for the entire time. As well as consistent therapy. Ketamine saved my life and I have been off all meds for a full year. I did 2 - 6 series IV infusions as well as monthly boosters for 2 years. It’s now been about 2 and a half years and I can spread my boosters out to about every 3 months. I was diagnosed with Adjustment Disorder instead of depression (the symptoms appear the same) but basically mine was situational. As ketamine has healed my brain and trauma I’ve been through, I continue with therapy to heal my situation. I wasn’t “me” for 18 years. I’m 46 years old and feel like “me” again. I feel ketamine cured me. But as life continues to add trauma at times, I need ketamine boosters as needed. But my numb awful depressive abyss life I was feeling before has not returned for over a year.

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I want to add, I never had one psychedelic experience. My infusions have always felt very peaceful. I listen to peaceful music and usually fall asleep. So for me, I believe the neuron communicators were being healed, and I don’t believe any psychedelic effect, affected me.

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Me again. Haha. I like what Sojourner said about psychedelics. In different situations like at the dentist with gas, or when I’ve needed pain pills with surgery etc, those all affect me like a bandaid. They take away my worries in the moment and allow me to see life differently. I didn’t have that experience with Ketamine. I never felt “high” I didn’t feel better at first, it took a while, but as I mentioned, I feel back to myself, how I was the first 28 or so years of my life. So in that sense I feel “cured” but that doesn’t mean life is perfect without struggles. I just now feel capable of handling life.

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What dose are you on? I have not heard of anyone ever falling asleep. It’s the Psychodelic properties that rewire the brain. I have had peaceful and I have had hell. Yesterdays was the worst one I ever had in over 2 years. I battle going deep. I’ve struggled depression for 30 years and am treatment resistant, thus Ketamine. On top of my depression. I’m grieving the loss of my son. My Doctor brought up an interesting point. I am fighting this battle for my son also, who never got the treatment he so needed and self-medicated. I feel pressure in fighting this illness for him and I. My claustrophobia is causing me to fight it, and literally had to stop yesterday & restart. It’s not getting easier, but harder every single time. Especially without a support system.

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I’m sorry you are going through that. I know how hard it is to struggle with it and try to be strong for another person. My son struggles as well, and I’m hoping I’m showing him that it’s okay to be vulnerable and ask for help. I’m sure a lot of us were raised to muscle through it.

I struggle to go deep at times and it’s normally when I have something on my mind. Sometimes it’s because I don’t try to keep my mind a blank slate. What I mean by that is I try not to work on infusion days or as minimal work as possible. I try not to watch the news or any videos on YouTube or Facebook that might put me in a negative space. Sometimes I meditate with the headspace app before I get there. I try to do my infusions first thing in the morning and I just take the day off. I feel that the earlier I do them the less likely I am to get into a negative thought pattern. I think it’s best to just wake up shower and go. You may want to think about switching up your music. What do you listen to? I used to not listen to anything with words because that would make me go down a bad path. Now it’s a mix and I just make sure my music is upbeat. If I have a bad session with a certain song I normally take it out of my playlist. I recommend getting a playlist if you don’t have one. It’s good to have some comfort and familiarity with the music. I have a set playlist, but I put it on shuffle so I’m familiar with the songs, but they aren’t always in the same order.

I hope some day I’m able to not do Ketamine or only do it occasionally. Right now I’m on boosters every 1-1 1/2 months and troches are supposed to be 100-200 mg twice a week, but I normally don’t have the time so I probably do it once a week. I’m glad to have this platform to discuss experiences with other people going through similar circumstances. I hope things get better for you. :grin:

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I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine the loss of a child. My father died in October and I’m a daddy’s girl but it was more peaceful and tender. I miss him like crazy and cry often but it was not tragic! I hurt for you❤️ I am religious and I know my dad is alive and well in Heaven. I have felt him with me in very dark times. I know he is up there fighting for me like crazy. My personal belief is that Christ has healed your son. I believe your son is happy and free of pain and has been able to let go of every earthly pain and desperately wants you to be able to do so also. It has only been a few sacred experiences, but I know my dad is beautifully happy and very much alive in spirit. I believe in a Heavenly Father and His son Jesus Christ and I pray to them. But I also talk to my dad often and ask for his help. And he does. But again, these moments are rare and sometimes it takes a while to recognize and feel him.

3 of my 4 children suffer from anxiety and one also has depression, eating disorders and has suicidal tendencies. It is so hard to carry the weight of our children as well. We want to help them and protect them. Sometimes we simply can’t because no matter what we do, we can’t take away their free agency. It’s hard.

I live in Utah and go to Utah Ketamine Clinic. They are simply amazing. I have had loved ones try other clinics and have had awful experiences, so bad they can’t even drive near the facility or they have panic attacks. After the injection, they felt they were hallucinating and on a trip for 2 months. Those were administered ketamine through shots and received the full dose all at once. It was traumatic for them.

I can’t remember my dosage so I could be wrong but I think I get 120-150 msg maybe 180 msg of ketamine. It’s done through a 45 minute slow drip IV infusion. My doctors add Versed, an anti anxiety med, Toradol, to prevent headaches, and Zofran to prevent nausea. They also add magnesium which they’ve found helps the body accept and maintain the effects.

I listen to music and also believe it’s powerful. I think I fall asleep within about 5-10 minutes of the session. The sessions seem like they’re 10-20 minutes long but in reality, it’s over an hour before I’m fully awake and can walk out with assistance. There have been a few times that I’m alert through the whole session due to being fired up about an issue etc. it is very quiet at the clinic, they have recliners and darkened rooms and it appears most patients fall asleep - they can treat around 6 or so at a time. I do evening infusions and go home after and sleep. During the day, the hope I feel with ketamine makes the day of typically very upbeat and hopeful one.

It was explained to me that the ketamine enters our bodies, and then it creates a response in our body that makes our body heal the neuron connectors in our brain by itself. That seems to be my experience. I have done well over 50 infusions so my healing definitely did not happen fast, but I was in bed more than 3 weeks out of the month. And the one week I was up, it was very poor quality of life. I had to “wind myself up” every 5 minutes it fell like. I had zero control and literally was barely surviving. I was never suicidal but every day would pray I wouldn’t wake up.

Now I’m in love with life and am thriving. But as I mentioned before, life is still very tricky and complicated, I have dealt with an emotionally abusive relationship for over 25 years. But we are getting help and things are so much better now. I was not myself and I now recognize the anti depressants were actually making me more depressed, but getting me through the day. Ketamine made it so I could go off all meds, but not until over a year into treatment. Out of the blue, that heavy numb hell of a pit came back last week week. I fought it for about 4 days then got an infusion. The next morning it was completely gone. At times I still get anxiety or feel extremely overwhelmed, but underneath it all, I am still myself and feel empowered and motivated to do something about it.

Spiritual practice, talk therapy and amazing music continue to aid in my healing with the ketamine.

Answers are tough to come by so I pray you all will find them sooner rather than later, but again, I will say ketamine saved my life snd I truly feel healed.

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Life surely isn’t for sissies. :flushed:There are a couple of sayings about life & depression that have always hit home for me. 1) Depression is anger turned inward. (My Dr always says to be kind to yourself Jimmy) 2) Depression is an inability to construct a future. 3) As parents you are only as happy as your unhappiest child. Always lots to think about & I’m one of those “overthinkers”. :roll_eyes: HUGS ALL!!!

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Wise words, Jim!

:kissing_heart: